Episode 52: Brenden Kumarasamy

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My guest today is the founder of master talk and master talk was conceived to achieve really one specific goal for people to overcome your fear of public speaking so that you can use your voice better to communicate your ideas to the world. And. Does this apply to comedy? Of course it does my guests today. I'm really happy to be talking to Brendan Kumarasamy. I hope I got that right. How'd I do. You're good. Chris Scott. Great time,thank you so much for being on the show. I'm really glad that we connected because you connected at a time that I wanted to get better about my public speaking because on a podcast when you're umming and I sing and stammering, it's not good, the same as it is on a comedy stage. So I'm really glad we connected because I'm going to let you help me. And by helping me, you can help others. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So can we talk a little bit about why you founded a master talk and what that's all about? Yeah, for sure. So the story began to university. I used to do these things called case competitions. Think of it like professional sports, but for nerds, other guys, my age were playing football or baseball or basketball. I wasn't really any of those guys. So what I did instead is I use the same competitive spirit, but I applied it to presentations. So for three years, I presented hunches of times coached dozens of people at how to communicate. And by the time I graduated from university and started working in the corporate world. I realized that a lot of the content on YouTube for public speaking was horrendous. You hear advice like, Oh, Scott, you should get up on stage and speak. And you're like, what am I supposed to do with this nonsense? Yeah. So I started making videos of my basement. One thing led to another investor talk grew from there. Yes. And you've got a lot of videos available. I've got your, a YouTube channel up right now, and I'm going to put a link out there in the comments. Folks, you can click on that and subscribe. He's got a ton of subscribers and his videos get a lot of play because they're good. I've watched quite a few of them before we started talking here, but I'm going to pop that in the comments real quick before for yet. And. The videos are great because first off they're not super long. They take a specific subject. So when you look at the title, you can find that subject like let me. Pull a couple up here, how to present it in a second language. How should you focus a focus on content or delivery? Three daily exercises to mastering public speaking, which is what I want to talk about, but just a lot of great content. And one of your latest ones is it three things you learned for from a stand-up comedy, three lessons? Three three lessons I learned from standup comedians. And you mentioned Russell Peters and George Carlin in there, and really excellent content in that one too. Let me tell you first of all, what my experiences in listening to stay on that comedy. So I'm an older gentleman, as you can tell. I'm also deaf because I listened to a lot of really loud rock and roll music when I was younger. And I wear hearing AIDS. The hearing AIDS only do so much as far as amplifying. So when a comedian comes on the stage and they do not project. Properly. I don't hear them. I may be here anywhere between a third and a half of what they say. And obviously that doesn't do well for comedy because every word is important in comedy. So that's my own personal perspective. But what I also have heard is that other people. Have the same problem. People who aren't hard of hearing. And what I have noticed is I think that a lot of new comedians think that because their voice is amplified by a microphone that they can mumble, they can vary their pitch so much. The it's distracting. They can stop with the. Pauses, all of those things and the. Amplified microphone is just going to do everything it's gonna, it's gonna make them sound better and that's not the case. So that's one of the things that I've noticed. The other thing that I've noticed is that there is one, there's a great fear of going up. And talking when you're a new comedian, I'm not talking about just your first open mic I'm talking about as you go up through the ranks. So you're an open mic or then you're hosting and then you're featuring, and then you're headlining. There's a lot of different levels of fear of there, and that fear can paralyze the emotion. Can just kill the delivery. And that is something that really interests me as far as exercises and things you can do to get around that. So let's talk about the fear of. Of presenting the fear of presenting the fear of doing standup comedy. What are some tips and tricks that I can do the stand-up comics can do first of all, to take that fear and turn it into positive energy into speaking. Absolutely. Scott, the first thing I would say is I have a lot of respect for set of comedians because they have it much harder than most of us do. So you take me as an expert, as an example here. So people understand. I could say anything I want at the end of the day, it's really hard to disagree with an expert in his field, but that doesn't necessarily apply to comedy actually. Does it apply at all? It doesn't matter what your background is, where you're from, who you are, what's funny and you know what isn't yeah. Everyone knows that. So if you don't do a good job, everyone will know. And that's why stand-up comedians. I have a very challenging job because you need to deliver an exceptional performance as one person with one mic. But. There are ways and how we can overcome the fear and master the public speaking context of standard comedians. So the first thing we need to understand is this idea that the fear of public speaking will always be there. Today I speak professionally and I'm still scared of public speaking from time to time. But the difference is that the message that I have to share with the world is much more important than the fear itself. So the analogy I like to use. Scott is this idea that let's say there's a boxing ring and fear is on one side of the ring and your message is on the other. Your fear will always be in the ring, but you need to make sure that your message gets the knockout punch, which brings you to the other point. Where does that confidence come from to knock out your fear? The confidence stems from two key areas. The first one that we all know. And that the best stand, but communities talk about all the time is preparation. We see these comedians at their special, Kevin ARD name anybody, but what they also say publicly is for that one year to prepare for the special they spend two years, at least. Crop in the bed and comedy clubs and small open mics. And they're always talking and brainstorming with other stand-up comedians to figure out what jokes are actually landing with the record survey and all the other big names today. They still eat it for two years. They still did terrible jobs. And then they knock it out of the part for the special, when all their timing and everything is correct. So prep is easy and obvious, but the other side of it. Is having a belief system. What do you actually believe in, what is it about static comedy that makes you want to get up on stage? Why do you want to share your ideas with the world? I find that so important Scott, to get very clear about those reasons, because that is what gives you confidence to deliver presentations or standup comedy performances. So if you take me, I started trading senior level executives when I was 23. On communication. Where did that confidence come from? It came from this idea that I wanted to make better free resources for the world who couldn't afford me. And the only way to get there is to get executives, to pay me high premiums. So I can reinvest that money into the videos that we see today on the YouTube channel. But that's the idea, have a belief system. Why are telling jokes so important to you? Why is. Getting people to have a smile on their face and your audience is so important to get really clear on that. I think you'll be one step closer to getting there. I found. Very early on that I needed to say the words I'm going to be saying on stage hundreds of times before I set them on stage. And that was even before an open mic, because I'm one of those guys that doesn't want to go up and screw up on open mic, even though that's just practice, so I would either print out my notes and walk around my basement and talk them. Talk about them or I'd memorize them. And same in the car when I was driving. Just say those words over and over again, so that I knew what the words were. Because as a comic, if you forget a couple of words, that kills a joke. So yeah, that's what I, that's one of the things I did early on, I do F re remembering the facts. I started late and I had already gone through enough stuff in my life that I had enough fear and enough stuff that it didn't really affect me as bad as like a 22 year old starting out or an 18 year old, starting out doing comedy. But there were still a lot of butterflies there and I did. Totally screw up my first few times, because I was so scared when I got up there, because there was no confidence, even though I practice there was no confidence in speaking in front of people. Then that's one of the points I wanted to get to. Next it's the and you'll notice I'm doing a lot of pausing because I'm using one of your techniques to not say cause I'm going to actually go through and count my ums and AHS when I edit this because I'm really working hard on it. But yeah, I just put one in, but the biggest fear is okay, I've got this material. I'm ready to say it out loud. I have practiced in front of my friends. I've practiced in front of my girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever. But then when you get up on stage and there's 50 people in the audience, people just totally freak out and there's always gotta be that first time. There's and even really those first few times, there's gotta be that first time you get in front of people, sitting there looking at you, waiting for something. Is there any tricks to just getting on stage and not being so scared when you talk to people? Absolutely the way that I think about this, Scott is not enough comedians. I find are content creators, people who speak on a stage, people who perform have enough dinner conversations with the people that actually listen to them. Every single comedians, every single content creator, every single big star starts at the same place. Three people watching them five people, watching them seven people watching them. What you need to get clear ahead of the game before it's too late. And you're too famous is you need to have one-on-one conversations and ask those people. Why are you in the world? Are you listening to me? It could be going to any other comedy club. Why are you spending time out of your life? Listening to me. And at the beginning, you're going to get answers like I'm your mom, or, but over time, your audience, especially the people you don't know will start to pour their hearts into you. They'll say things like, Hey, Scott, I was really depressed. I had a really tough day. And then I went to your show and wow. You really made me feel great about life. And it was so hilarious how you said this and that. And then you start to really get an understanding that, wait a second, I guess my jokes aren't that stupid after all. And that's when it starts to shift for you. And I find that's what the great standup comedians understand is this idea. And what's fascinating about them. That's why I made a whole video about them is they don't explicitly communicate that. It's more about the, keep it in the back of their heads, because they always got to stay funny and their public image. But it's this idea that they know the impact that they're making. It's about telling these jokes that can really make a debt. Like going back to Russell Peters, since we talked about the beginning, like he literally made my childhood. But, I never knew what static comedian was. I watched all of his specials when I was 14, which is probably not the right age to watch that kind of stuff, but it was great. Like he really inspired me and he helped me see laughter as a tool to help bring people together. The way that he hits on different ethnicities. No, it's not about hit. It's about sewing that, Hey, we're all that day different from each other. It's all just laugh at each other and be happy. I want everyone to apply that analogy and the jokes and the performances that you give. That's why I'm a big advocate of having those one-on-one conversations, Scott, so that you understand that once your ideas are important, then you'll be a lot less scared to communicate them. That makes a lot of sense because some folks only want to get into standup comedy because they think it's cool. But as you start working in it, if you do talk one-on-one with somebody and say, why did you listen to me? You're going to get a mission statement. You're going to, and you're going to get your why. And if that is always driving you, like you said, if that's always back there driving you, then everything that comes out is going to have more impact. And you're going to, you're going to take it more seriously and you're going to be a lot more confident talking to those folks in front of you. And I find that's true in any industry. Let's just to build on what you're saying. Cause it's amazing. Instead of commute, instead of comedy, the person I would equate who really cares about their art is somebody like Dave Chappelle, you turned down millions of dollars to say screw all of this. Like I don't get to say the joke. So is I'm just going to live on a farm and everyone's just wait what up? And he's just, he just left for eight years. Same thing with me and YouTube. A lot of YouTubers, they start because it's cool. Whereas you have some, you have a guy like me who is literally just making YouTube videos on public speaking, which is just a niche topic, but I'm super passionate about it is this idea that some people care about the art more than just the fame that comes with it or the recognition that comes with it. So my advice is as simple as once you get clear on why those seven people are listening to you now before long, you'll have 700 people listening to you in the same room. So let's talk about things that I've had problems with and haven't totally overcome them yet. So when you get on stage and you get the microphone in your hand and you are projecting to the audience, one of my big problems is I don't talk to the audience. I talk over the audience. The stage isn't that far off the ground. Most times it's normally like a foot, 16 inches, but. Here I am. I don't want to look people in the eye because I'm scared of what I might see. Sorry, I'm looking above them. What's a good way to overcome that. Do the harder thing Scott and do the harder thing means practice long stares. I call it the endless gaze, but really what you do is go to somebody that you love in your house. You can start with your wife and then move up from there. And then what you do is you stare at them for five. Minutes. You can blink if you want, you just can't do anything else or talk. Most people can't make it a five. Even if they're married, they can up picture to five. Trust me, I've coached a lot of executives. And they always come back to, they say, I can't do it. I was like, what do you mean you can't do it? You're married to them. What's going on. That's the thing. Most humans can't do it for that long, but the reason why that's so impactful, Scott is if you could pause for that long and still have that resilience, when you go on stage. You won't care anymore in a good way. Like you'll just look at people and go you got like a weird hat on and you'll just do this, do your thing. And have a lot of fun with that. So that's what I would recommend for the eye contact is start gazing into the eyes of people for excruciating long periods of time. So when you get into your actual presentation, you're going to have a lot more confidence. Why? Because the secret that the best speakers in the world, don't tell you, Scott. And I would argue the best stand at comedians is that we can pause forever without ever making it awkward. So practice that right. That, that was actually going to be my next question. One of the things that I've read and I it's been. Confirmed by other podcasts. I've listened to that. A lot of comedians do what I did. They were talking above the audience because when you're looking up here, you are, you're seeing the words. You're looking for the, it's the way you're using your memory to see a cue card of the words and. It's a crutch, but you never ever connect with an audience when you project that way there, you've got to be alert and it can like, like you said, it can be one person in the audience, or you can flip it around, you can move around and pick other people. They aren't uncomfortable because they think you're just looking at the audience. And that makes a lot of sense. Now you just went right into another one and let me present the problem. First of all, a new material or you're nervous, you get on stage and you just puke it out. Hey everybody. I went to the store the other day and boy was that rough and I tripped and fell and Oh, and by the way, I got kids. You just spit it out. No, no pauses for a fact, no pauses for the laughter. You step on the laughter. It's awful. I've done it. When I see people do it, I just die inside for him because. It's a ruin chance. You just messed up the chance. So what are some ways that you can overcome that and not just in front of audiences? How can you practice at home? Because you can't, it's one of those things that you have to almost be prepared for before you get on the stage, rather than. Practice it onstage. That helps, but what are some things you can do before you get on the stage and what are some things you can do when you're on the stage? So this is going to be fun because since the show is a lot about Santa community and some people are listening are probably in that field as well. So the first thing I'll say is if you are not already practicing with other stand-up comedians on different jokes, you are losing. Because most standard comedians, the best people in the do what they do. And they realize as, Hey, if I just work with the best static comedians in the game, we all make our jokes better. We'll be 10 times better than the next guy. Who's just working alone. But the value I will add to that conversation. Is most of those conversations around jokes and how you're delivering the jokes. They're not around the actual technique of delivery. What do I mean by this? Here's an easy exercise that I would recommend you actually do with another state of community. Usually I don't recommend that, but in this situation it makes perfect sense because we're all speaking for a specific purpose. So let's say me and you were on a team where we both want to make it in Hollywood or so. Cut it out. And we're living the dream. Yeah, potentially what's going to happen because I've done standup in, you've done standup in this context. Let's say what you want to do is when you take turns, delivering jokes to each other, you want to pause them where you think is the best place for them to pause. And then what you want to do is you want to record both those conversations. I call us the force silence, drill, but we can call it the forced laughter drill. In this case, it's the same tag. I'm just changing the name. So let's say you're telling a joke, but you're stepping over the laughter. I go, Oh Scott, no pause right there. Just hold it, then go. And then you go, okay. Here's my next drug out. The family hit pause again. And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to force you to watch both recordings and then you'll watch both and you'll listen to the second one. Go. Oh, I see why positing is so important now, because now I can see Brendan while he's not laughing. Cause my jokes suck. But like later what he does love to kidding, but let's say laughing now it's because, Oh, and now he's giving his audience the time to laugh. Now I understand his point. So that's something you could do with each other. You don't need a speech coach with this, like just get another stead of comedian and practice those things, especially in this field because above everyone else, what is the best time to pause and for how long to pause in that specific context so that you can give the audience enough time to breathe between your jokes, thinking about when you're on stage or is there anything that you can do to. So say you get off the proper pausing technique. Is there anything you can do to reset yourself and put your best self back in to the proper. Pausing for effect, pausing for laughter. Is there some way that you can re do a reset in the middle of, in the middle of the speech or in the middle of a routine? That's definitely challenging for sure. Scott, I wouldn't recommend that for beginners. That's something intuitive that comes okay. Much like jokes, you know how static you didn't say random jokes that they didn't plan for spontaneous ones. It's a similar analogy to public speaking. It's hard to reset, but an easy and easy recommend I can give people is when you're working on your one. Perfect set. Let's say the set that you keep doing over and over again, when you want to do it is in that script. In that paper, you want to actually write down where you're pausing. So let's say for example, Oh, I should probably pause it. Scott, what do you think here? Should I be posing your, and then you literally write in the script, pause for five seconds for effect, smile a bit in this part. I know that sounds weird, but you need to start artificially in the same way that when you start sending comedy, you don't really write your own jokes. You start practicing other people's when you get really good at them, like singing and then you start to create your own and then you get better at them. Same analogy applies to a. To mastering the public speaking side of stand-up comedy is yeah. Just write down all the paper. Where are you pausing when you're set at the end of the day is going to be 45 minutes to an hour at max, maybe even 30 minutes. We're doing open mic really depends. But the idea is, sometimes these presentations aren't very, just for laughs is five minutes, right? Sometimes you just go there for a quick showcase. And that five minute example that I just gave. That's super simple. You can apply that really well. And you'll realize, especially when you're adding these pauses, that you can say a lot less jokes and you could just focus on the jokes or really funny rather than there's jokes that are funny and it adds a lot more punch to your to your overall delivery and your set. I really started noticing pauses from the grades like a bill Burr, like a Russell Peters, like a Kevin Hart. I watched Kevin Hart's latest, special last night. And there were some pretty long pauses in there. And, as somebody who has performed stand-up comedy, the, they were partially deliberate. But also he's thinking about the next joke while everybody is soaking in the previous joke. And you can even pause after the laughter's done a little bit, because they are, if you just got a good one. Off and they laughed really hard. You can pause a few seconds after that because they are on the edge of their seats waiting for the next one. And it, it actually packs more punch because you pause. Absolutely. I completely agree with that point. So let's go into ums and AHS because that's been a crutch of mine for a long time. And it's funny, I'll tell you a story. I edit my own podcast. This is all my thing. Probably like yours is all your thing and it's a lot of work. So I would go through and edit. And I say, Holy crap, there's a lot of ums and AHS in the podcast. And I recorded myself doing stand-up as well. And there were ums and AHS there. What I did is there was a program that would transcribe the podcast for me and I would run. My podcasts through the transcriptions. And one of the features of it was that it would count your ums and AHS for you. And in one podcast now I had a guest. As well, and it didn't separate between the two, but in one hour there were 2,167 ums and AHS. Oh my God. So I was at that point, I had to say, okay, I've got to stop this because I know it's distracting as hell. So I got really deliberate about it and I kept running it. Running my podcasts through the translator and they came down, but they've never completely gone away. So what are some techniques you can use to get rid of chorus, the secret sauce to getting rid of filler words. Scott is to understand why they happened in the first place. The reason is simple. We use filler words to buy time. Scott's asking me a question. I got to figure out the answer. Oh, this is what I wanted to say. So we use it so we can buy some time, right? So let's say what we want to say next, because we forgot what we want to say next, but the best speakers in the world did the best performers, the best comedians and the best entertainers like JV Fox is that to save the same amount of time, they say. Nothing. Oh, Scott, that's a great question. Now let me answer. So what we do is we pause instead of using filler words, it's not an easy tick to get rid of. I know it's easier said than done when you see me do it but the point I want to drive is we all start a chapter. One. What? I started speaking professionally, my presentations used to be. Littered with ums and AHS, but because I forced myself to replace them with pauses and silences, I got much better with them over time. And now as I say none of them now, but the point that I'm driving for everyone, who's listening. Is it's a step, right? You don't just get there overnight. The process is simple. Once you learn how to pause effectively in your presentation, there's a cause and effect, relationship. The number of filler words that you will say will automatically decrease. What do I mean by that? If you're comfortable pausing for five minutes, like in my in-person workshops, what I do, Scott is actually pause for two minutes. Like two full minutes and everyone just goes through everyone's in their seats. Just they're like, I'm just drinking some water just to prove I put, but because I'm so comfortable pausing, I would never do that in an actual presentation, like positive for two minutes. But what happens is I'm so comfortable pausing that the next time I want to see a filler words. I could just replace that with nothing, but we need to get comfortable with that. Or is there any exercises you can do? Before you start talking that can help you with that. I would say the only the best way to practice this, I still probably have to figure out a technique and that's probably an action item for myself, but the way I did it was I would present a single presentation. So in comedy that's easy. What's your best set. And then I would record the full set. Maybe let's do the five minute snippet. Let's start with the five minute showcase. It's easy. You record it, you count the number of obsessed. You have to watch your own tapes. I know it goes without saying, if you want to be a great performer, you got to watch your own stuff. Beyonce presents her three hour show and goes backstage, turns it on, starts washing it over again. Like it's crazy. I need to start doing the same thing, but the difference, and I'm sure a lot of you already doing that. But the way, the lens that used to look at your set needs to be different needs to shift from just is my joke. Funny too. How is my joke being delivered? But you need to change the lens. You're still looking at the same video, but the way that you're looking at it needs to change. And then over time, what happens? You start to realize, man, I say so many filler words. Let me try that same set again. One joke at a time and then you record again, it's always better to do this with a partner, by the way, other side of the community don't do this alone will also be boring as hell. Do it with people and that, because that's what I did. And then after you do the set 10, 15 times. Trust me the F the 50th video. I'm pretty sure I'd bet money on this. You would say a lot less filler words than the first recording, if you really put the time and effort on it. Yes. Yes. Agreed. And there are other filler words besides Umunna there's like what are some other filler words that you want to get rid of? Or, but what I will say is most audience members will not really recognize you saying filler words, as long as 95% of them are removed or 90% of them. Even me, a lot of the times I say like a lot, I say so, but nobody really comments on that. Because I don't say filler words most of the time. So the goal here much like sad with comedians. We're not shooting for perfection here. We're shooting for what's 80 20. What's going to get me 80% of the results here, because if I get 80% of the jokes, and people don't realize that I've messed up the other 20 and I don't show it, people are going to still say that I'm funny same thing with with public speaking, you don't have to get everything right. Especially in the comedy game, you don't cause nobody's counting your filler words. They just want to laugh if you make them laugh. Okay. And then over time, as you slowly become a more serious professional like me, let's say my field or Russell Peters, and let's say his field or any other con comedian then yeah. Then you'll really work towards the a hundred percent Mark, but that's not the goal of today's conversation. The goal of today's conversation is how do we get the number down by 50% and that already. We'll give you a huge spike of confidence. And by the way, getting that 50% is actually really easy for most people here because static comedian comedy is much harder than regular presentations. And you made a point of saying that they don't really notice the filler words so much, however, the presentation and your. Comedy is better when they're not there. So you would, if you took two performances, the exact same set side by side with. 50%, more ums and AHS, so all those filler words, and then you take it the other way. I would wager that you get a lot more laughs and you connect with the audience better on the one where. There's not so many filler words. And it's something that isn't conscious with your audience. However, when it's not there, you're better. Absolutely. And, I think the way that I see it is, especially as you get really good, you take this really seriously as a career and the psychotics of static comedy or really anything, then you get really obsessive and then you do things like, let me do the set 200 times so that when it's the 257th time and I'm doing my Netflix special, my other special. People will go well, you're so funny, even if you did it 250 times now I do presentations for my real job as well. And I would say that a Q and a is similar to crowd work. So let's take the similarities and differences between those two and what's the best way to handle crowd work. And maybe even handle a bit of a heckler. Interesting. Yeah here's the way I think about it. And by the way, you just gave me a great idea for a video. I'll make a video on how to work the Crow. It's really smart but the idea, cause I have a couple of ideas in my head as I'm talking, but here's the way that I see it for me. It's a mindset thing. If you go into a crowd by saying, I hope to like me, I really hope they'll find me funny. All it'll take is one, a heckler to bring you down. Yeah, versus saying, I've done this set 200 times. There is no way in hell that this audience is not going to laugh. But that only comes with time and I'll use myself as an example. Cause I sound like I'm putting myself on a pedestal. So we bring myself down here when I was on my first podcast and somebody like you was asking me, Hey Brenda, what's master chocolate. What's the fear of publics. How do we overcome this? I wasn't answering this eloquently. I was just some dude in a basement, which I'm still in that basement today where I just write it's answered with well and in my head, I'm like, I'm making videos, my mother's basement. Should I really be talking about this? Yeah. Fear of public safety. I guess it comes from somewhere. I didn't know what the hell I was saying, after 300 podcast interviews, you're always getting asked the same questions. Ready. You're not going to come up to me and say, Hey Brenda, random site, what's your favorite fruit? It's if you're not going to ask you, that's not relevant. But you could, if you want, but that's the key. But you'll realize the same thing happens at stand up comedy. Even if you're presenting the same joke over and over again. It's still hysterical because the audience is always different. So because of that over time, you go wait a second. I've said the same joke, 150 times and 148 times. It was funny. It's just the only reason it wasn't the other two times. Cause it was my first two times doing a sucked delivering it. So what that new found confidence, when you start to work the crowd, you'll be a lot more confident in the way. Because your minds will be different. You're going to your frame, right? It's like people work from your frame. They're here to see you. It's not you going to see them, they're here to see you because they respect you as a professional. And you're there because you want to make them laugh. You want to respect their time too. It's when you realize that framing changes and that's not an overnight process as well. And you start to get more feedback. Remember the dinner conversation, Scott, I always like to bring it back to that. Talk to your audience. Hear it from them. You don't need to hear it from me. Talk to Billy. Who's working in a corporate job, hates his life, his only release every week is watching you. Talk to Billy, talk to Julia, and then from them, hear it from them and realize that your jokes are funny. So then what that newfound confidence you be worried about hecklers anywhere, the next time you hear a heckler, you're like, yeah. I once had a heckler like that and he's just heckling me. Cause he's worried that his mom thinks he's, you just, you just play it off and you keep going. There's really two times that a. Crowd work comes into play. And it's a planned because that's just part of your act like Ian bag. Most of his act is crowd work. And the other time is when your material is not going over so well because you haven't connected with the crowd. And like you said, Hey, I've done this joke 150 times. It always works. It didn't work. Let's find out why let's talk to the crowd a little bit. Let's find out a little bit more about them and that brings them in the moment and brings you in the moment. One of the important things that I heard from a comic, the really resonated with me was that you have to remember that audience did not. Buy a ticket to come in and expect you to fail. They don't want, they don't want you to fail. They want you to succeed. They want to laugh. They can't. And you touched on that. They came here to laugh. So don't think that they're against you. That audience is not against you. They're on your side. You just have to prove to yourself that it was worth it for them to buy the ticket. I love that. And just to piggyback on that, because I love the point idea that let's really put that into context. Do you really think your audience wants to spend 150 bucks a night or 2030, 50 bucks a night when they could be doing something else with it? That time they get to go and do like a theater play. They can go watch a movie, stay at home and they're coming to watch it. Yeah. The last thing they want to do is to screw up, unless it's funny, but it probably won't be to be honest. So yeah. They want to love to eat some damn chicken wings and have a good time. So it's a good time. That's the key. Yeah. One of the things that is a. It's a continual problem with me is stammering, which is different than the arms in the eyes. I tend to repeat words. I tend to forget what I was. I forget the word that I was going to say. And I think a lot of it is that my mind is going faster than my mouth. I can't keep up. Is that something that's common with speakers? Absolutely. Yeah. Test me every case they're mentioning. I've I've seen it. I've it's like a doctor, but not really at all, but but the point that I'm driving is yeah, stammering is normal, especially even with me. Sometimes when I'm trying to think of words, I repeat them a lot. And the recommendation, I usually give her stabbing it's focused on everything else first. What do I mean by that? You get rid of your ums and AHS, deliver your things more. So I just said, yeah, it happens filler word. You say you deliver the joke better. You have more conversation with your audience and eventually. The stammering will just disappear. That's the way I think about it is it's this idea of how do you prioritize tasks? The issue with stammering is when you're repeating words, it's a similar version of filler words in the sense where you're saying, Oh, let me just repeat this word again. So I can give myself more time to figure out what the next word is. But over time, as you gain more confidence, you start to realize how better of a speaker you're becoming very rapidly, especially with the tips we're talking about today and with your friends, you'll stub or a lot less. And by the way, something worth mentioning, nobody really cares if you stab her, unless you do it really often. So for example, let's say I'm having this covered and you go, Oh yeah, the Scott, what I was trying to say here was this. No one really hits you for that. If I'm being honest, it's only if you do it every five seconds, that it's an issue. But if you do, Kevin Hart sounds like he's stammering all the time. Yeah. He's incredible. By the way, I have a whole video about it. It's coming out at some point, but that's the point of driving? Nobody cares when Kevin does it. It's a part of this comedy style actually I'd even argue. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's fine. Okay. Great. As far as things you can do. To practice at home. What would you recommend that somebody who wants to be serious about comedy does like on a daily basis it's almost like part of your, either your morning ritual or you do it along with your yoga or whatever you do. Is there, are there things that you can do that will help you to it's almost like muscle memory, you get the muscle memory and tax so that you are a better speaker. Yeah, I'll give you, I'll give you two easy ones. So the first one we'll talk with the Xs after, but the first one is what I call the puzzle method. So public speaking is like a jigsaw puzzle. By the way, if this is the only tip that you take away from today's conversation, I guarantee your sets will be better. So going back to jigsaw puzzle, it says you had a thousand piece puzzle. He put together. But their family, because of COVID you don't really have much else to do. So I just bought one. I'm not a puzzle guy, but my wife is, and I said we're going to be stuck here that all weekend, no kids. So we're going to do a puzzle. Okay, awesome. So you're like the perfect person for this question. Then, if you were making a puzzle, which pieces would you start with? First edge. Yeah. Explain the rationale just for the audience. Because the edge pieces are they have one common piece part to them, so the edge is the edge. So you separate all those and you start putting those together, by the different colors that are around the edges and that's easier than you work in. Exactly. So another question we have to ask ourselves is why don't we do that with our sets? Write or bike, especially if you're an average for comedian, that's true with amateur speakers as well. You write a bunch of content, all your best jokes. You get to the stage you go, and then you get to the end. You go. Second one was just like, I barely had time to go through one chicken man. Like what the hell? Just up. So we don't remember a thing. That's why I recommend puzzle. And puzzle is simple. Treat your sets. Like a public speaking jigsaw puzzles, start with the edges first practice, the first two minutes of your set over and over again until it's perfect. I'm talking 50 times, not five times. And the best part about this one or two minutes early set, it'll take you an hour. It's actually not that hard. Same thing with the conclusion. How are you going to close the set off? What are you, what does your last two minutes sound like? 50 times, like over and over. It's bulleted. With yourself once again, you'll nail it after 50 times ago. Wow. I'm really good at this communication thing. Then you tackled the middle. So if it's a 60 minute set, you spend the next 56 minutes figuring it out. But if it's a five minutes showcase, you're pretty much done. And then you just refine that one minute in the middle and you're done. So start treating your sets like a public speaking jigsaw puzzle, like the puzzles that you do at home, and you'll be a lot, it'll be a lot easier for you to run your sets and really think about how do I master each frame until the whole set is mastered other side of the equation. What is the daily exercise that I love to recommend? I'm a big fan. This is especially important for standup comedians about diving into the unknown. How hard can we make public speaking so that if you could do the harder thing and you go back to chokes that you've practiced so many times that it becomes easy and the exercise is what I call the random word exercise. You essentially pick five random words every single day, three roads to put how much time you have. And you'll make one minute presentations out of each of them, not 10 minute ones, just one and what this does. And I'm happy to demonstrate of course, but essentially what you do is if you're talking about, I don't know, couch. For a minute, when you go back to your jokes that you've practiced a hundred times, those jokes are going to be perceived as a joke. They're going to be easy, right? Yes. So let's do an example. Yeah. Give me a word door. Sure. A lot of people always ask the same joke, Scott knock. Who's there. Knock, knock. Who's there. You know who isn't there? Me, I hate these types of jokes. I hate this idea of why do we keep knocking on a door anyways? Why don't we knock on something else? Like an elephant or a, maybe a road or a car, or maybe my wife actually, let's not do let's. Let's knock on something else. How about we knock on. A window, that's cool. Romeo and Juliet, what you're knocking on a window and you go, Oh my dear love, how will I miss you? So even if both of them die at the end, but let's forget about that part, but it was the point I want to drive your Scottish. Just keep knocking, just avoid the door. Definitely avoid your wife. Anyways. That's just a good example. I never did a standup comedy style, but that's really good. You might think of starting a hobby there. Yeah. I've always been passionate about standup. It's just for me, just so people get the full picture of me. It's a lot easier to be funny at the business world. Man. There's a lot less competition. Look, that's the straw. That's I have a lot of respect for people. That's why I'm always happy to add value of right cat, because man doing this full time is a lot of pressure. Lot of pressure me, I can just come on here, tell it what do it was. It was like what a seven out of 10, if I'm being honest, but people are looking at me like what? But he's not a stab at committee. He's an experts. We're going to give them an 11. Right? Did there was riffing practicing riffing that's a comedy technique. That is very important. And that's one of the things that keeps you mindful. It keeps you mindful of not only what you're saying, but who you are saying it too. So that makes a lot of sense. And public speaking. You usually want your audience to walk away with maybe two or three nuggets? You're lucky if you get three nuggets of information to get implanted in their brain and they walk away with that saying. Hey, Brendan is a very good speaker and this is changing my life so that, and you can speak for an hour and that's what you get. You get three and in comedy, if you get three laughs, even in a short five minute set, you suck. You're not a good comic. So that's what I've learned from public speaking is. After doing standup and then doing public speaking, it's a breeze to do the public speaking part, but you have to be mindful of what your punchlines are in the public speaking, which is a nugget. So you want people to take away. So if I want people to buy my. Internet security product or something like that. I, that's the goal, but everything I say is leading to that goal. And it's usually in story form or by giving examples and things like that in comedy, it's set up punch, set up, punch set up punch. And so it's more, it's a much more rapid fire than public speaking and. Three, three laps and a five minute set. That's a failure three good points out of a hour. Long presentation is fantastic because they're going to remember you. So there, there's a lot of correlations there, but you are so right in the fact that after you've done standup comedy, public speaking. Oh yeah. It's a joke. A walk in the park. Yeah. So you do one-on-one coaching with. With public speakers. How would you approach that with a standup comic who wanted to get better? If I'm being honest here? Cause, cause I know a lot of STEM comedians struggle, especially at the beginning of their careers, the way that I would do this. And Kevin still does to this day, if I use Kevin Hart as an example, he's always practicing what Chappelle and Chris rock is. Find a team of static comedians, where you like these people are going somewhere. How do I practice with them? And then when you're working together as a team, then you construct a quiz each other on different things. I'm happy to give you an example with the one-on-one clients that I have that are mostly executives. And usually what I do is I always ask them this question. The question is, how would the world change? If you were an incredible speaker and for someone who's listening, the question is a bit different. It's how would the world change if you were, if you're a world-class stand-up comedian. Same thing. So in that lens, in that context, you really start to see yourself on bigger stages. It really starts to set bigger goals for yourself. And then after you do that you kinda have to figure out what the gap in your communication is because the step two is I wouldn't even be teaching the list. Step two is, go watch your favorite comic. Actually let's watch it together. And I want you to tell me what they're doing from a public speaking perspective. That would be the next thing. So now they're putting on a new lens, like putting on glasses for the first time. Now they're looking at the different thing that you're probably doing now, and you're going, Hey, wait a second. There's a lot more. To Kevin's or to surveys or to Ricky's and there's something here. It's not just a Saint jokes and going home. There's an art behind, there's a science here. And then when you start to understand that science step three is applying that science true. That makes a lot of sense because I've gone from Watching a standup comedy special like Kevin, Hart's watching it once to watching a minimum of two times because I allow myself to be in the moment and just laugh in the first one. But then as a student of comedy, I watch it the second time and I usually watch it by myself. I don't watch it with my wife. I watch it by myself so that I can really look and. Hit the pause buttons, make notes and say, Hey this really worked for him. And. Sometimes things don't work as well. There were a couple of times in Kevin's special from last night that wasn't quite as good. And he was in a different element too. He was doing it from his home and had a much smaller audience. So he was doing stadium style stuff in an intimate audience. So it makes it, it makes a lot of sense that might not work, but he's been doing stadiums for so long. His muscle memory, brain muscle memory was in a different place. So that's one of the things I do. And I'm sure that as a public speaking coach yourself, you probably look at a lot of the great public speaking. Times like, like a JFK speech and things like that. You probably look at those and analyze those yourself, is that right? Make entire videos on that I'm obsessive and in the same way that, that you were mentioning how you watch, different standup comedians, which I do as well, just for my own entertainment, but also value for, to make videos. Like I did a couple of weeks ago. It's this idea that no, I studied them like, like books. And again, I watch all of their keynotes there's one person in particular, Scott Harrison, who's the CEO of charity. I think I've watched all of his keynotes. Like I'm just watching it. I'm like, Oh, I would've done this differently. Would've done this differently. So when I'm coaching, even if there's nobody there, when I'm actually coaching people, I can apply those lessons to my videos and to the clients. So yeah, I highly recommend watching people who are a great, a good way to summarize this thought, Scott, most people say Very little people ask how. A lot of people go, Oh my God, Kevin, you're so amazing. You're like the best thing since sliced bread, but there's a very small percentage of people look at the background and go what's happening in the back end here. Yeah. What's happening on the backend? What's the what's the curtain behind what's behind the curtain. Yeah. Yeah. We're putting it in the same. What's behind the bits. So same thing with with public speaking, people go up to great speakers and go, Oh wow. You're so amazing. But they don't realize as you're, you can tell a very young, but I've also practiced. Over a thousand times, like I've given over a thousand presentations in my life. Which is insane if you think about it. So it's a really start to unpack the back end of people's life. I think that's when you really start to shoot for world-class and you can attain it much faster that way. That's great. You have given a wealth of knowledge in an hour here, buddy. Th this was I'm so glad we connected and I want folks. I know you don't look at my show notes that much because I make the links. So I know if you click on them, but I'm going to put a few of my favorite of Brendon's master talk, YouTube videos in the show notes. So actually pull up the show notes for once. I'm glad you listened folks, but just pull up the show notes and click on a couple of those and subscribe because he's not going to. He's not going to spam you with stuff. He puts out one video a week normally, and the video is not super long, but I have taken away so much knowledge from the few that I've watched. It's fantastic. So let's talk about how people can find you. If people want to hire you to help with their public speaking, how can people get to your Brendan? Absolutely Scott, the best way to reach me is definitely the YouTube channel. All you have to do is go on YouTube and type the word master talk in one word, and you'll find me right there. And if you want to contact me, all of my information is on the YouTube channel. It's really easy to get to me. That's great. I've really enjoyed those. And it's funny. The, it seems like the guests that I have on the don't directly have to do a stand up comedy. They're not in the biz. They seem to have more impact. So I'm always looking for more people like you, the. Can talk about the periphery of doing stand up because there's so many disciplines within public speaking promotion and stuff like that. I had a life coach, a confidence coach on, and he. He was one of the most commented on I got emails because of him saying he really changed my life. And so that, that's what comics need and that's what the show's all about. So I really appreciate you taking the time on a Friday morning to talk to me about this, because this was a good one. I appreciate that. I call all my episodes. Good ones when I put them out on Twitter. But I'm going to call this an extra good one because I think we learned some stuff here. So thank you so much, Brendan. It's been great talking to you. Once again, folks make sure to go to YouTube. If you don't do anything else, I put the link here as we've been talking a couple of times, but just go into YouTube and type the word master talk, all one word. And hit the subscribe button. Watch just a couple of his videos, because he's going to pull you in. It's going to work for you as it's some of the best public speaking stuff I've seen. I think, because I think it's because you're not so full yourself, like a lot of other public speakers. I tried really hard not to be. Yeah. But yeah you. You really come across as a human being. And I appreciate that about your video. So thank you so much, Brandon. It's been great talking to you brother.