Episode 51: Don Smith

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My guest is an actor, comedian podcast, host and owner of Wiley's comedy club, part owner of Wiley's comedy club in Dayton, Ohio. It's a, and the host, the podcast is called the life radio show. We've got Don Smith with me. How you doing Don? All right. How you doing, man? All right. I, as I told you, before we started, it's going to be hard to pin down what I want to talk to you about the comedy podcasts. Let's let's get into that first. When did you first start doing standup comedy? I started performing a little over six, six and a half years ago. I actually had something I've been wanting to do for a long time and just never got up and did it. I started performing theater local theater in my mid twenties. So I love theater. I love the live performance, but the problem with theater is it takes such a commitment. Three, four month commitment, pretty much every night of the week and weekend. And it. Didn't have the time for that. So I, but I still, I always have that itch to get on stage. Cause there's nothing beats a live performance. So yeah, that's how I decided to start performance stand-up is just get up there. It seems easier at the outset than doing rehearsals for three months. So tell me about your first time. What was it like to get on stage the first time? My first time was actually, I went back to college late to finish my bachelor's degree. And I took a class that was called comedy writing. And I didn't know it was actually a basics of standup comedy class. And the final exam was actually a four minute set at the local at the date and a funny bump. So that was, yeah. Technically my first set, even though it was a college related, but my first set after that is about probably a month after I did that. I performed at Wiley's comedy club for my first real open mic set. And it went well. I was surprised because both times went fairly well. The first time I performed at Wiley's that actually went well enough that I let the people running the wildly Sunday comic show. At the time I let them convince me to sign up for the competition later that month, the because every year Wiley's does the annual fireworks, 4th of July comedy competition. And they talked me into signing it up after the signing up after my first set. So they just wanted the money. I don't know if I really did, but no, it did. It went fairly well. Actually I made it to the finals of the competition. So that was great. That was cool. That was like, my third performance was in the competition. My fourth was in the finals. Wow. Yeah. I impressed myself a little bit. I feel like I'm coming into it a little bit later in life. And also having the acting chops helped you. Definitely the live performance in the acting, the theater performance definitely helped because you develop a stage presence with that rather than somebody just walking up to try it their first time without having that. So I think I definitely had that advantage. I don't know if starting later in life helped, but I do know that the acting helped a lot in that, because that way you can sell your jokes a little more. If you're able to add that performance element and the stage presence into it right off the bat. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, the reason why I say starting later in life, he didn't start as late as me. I started when I was 52. And by that time, had raised two kids. I had friends pass away. I had, I had lost jobs and and all that kind of stuff. I'm like, know. And audience doesn't bug me. I don't care. It wasn't as nerve wracking because of all the life experience I've already had. That's true. I don't know. Cause it is weird as it sounds doing the radio show, doing comedy, doing theater. I get really I get nervous. I still get stage fright before I go up. And now the podcast, I don't so much because I've done it for so long, but. I still cause this year because of COVID of course I haven't been on stage much at all. I think I went up for the first time in eight months about probably two weeks ago. Oh, I was terrified. Yeah. I still get a little nervous. If you're not, if you're not a little nervous before you go up, you're dead. So you should have some nerves or you really don't like what you're doing because you want to do well. So that. I try to stay nervous in it by constantly using new material. I, every, I know when I was first starting off, of course, all the advice you get is just work on that solid five work on that solid five. And I get bored to death and I can't do it about every third show. My first year doing comedy about every third or fourth show, I'd go on stage with a brand new set. Wow. And it was terrifying, but at the same time I gained a lot of material doing that. So I was a year in and actually I won a competition. I got to do a 30 minute set. I had the material because even at a year in, I was doing so much and changing it up so much. Yeah. That's some prolific writing there in a year to get a solid 30. I didn't say so. 30. That was okay. It was like, semi-solid it wasn't solid. It was still a little, it was like jello it was that consistency. You stood up on stage with a mic in your hand for 30 minutes? Not a lot of people. And then after a year, with no notes. Yeah. First time I went up, I was like, I don't want to take notes because I have a cheat sheet. Yeah. So what kind of material do you do Don? I usually talk about my life and the mistakes I've made this past year and a half has been just glorious for that because every everything with the comedy club, I made the joke, off the air, I made the joke about how. I am, since I'm backing off, I give my partners a chance to ruin their marriage. That's true. And that's been the past year and a half. There've been a lot, just a lot of turmoil and a lot of issues that I've been dealing with. And I bring that onstage and oftentimes with a lot of anger to where. I hit something deep. The first time I went up and really let loose. By the time I got off stage and got to the bar to get a drink, I could hardly pick my drink up. I was just whatever nerve I touched inside hit me deep. Wow. It was pretty wild this past year and a half using a lot of material like that. I've had that's. Another reason for stepping back is because. I've had so much, I won't say bad energy, but so much angry energy going on stage that I could tell it started to affect me off stage. Did you feel like the taken that personal stuff up there does give you an outlet though? A little bit of therapy almost. It does, but it can also make a significant other very angry. But yeah, it, I think it does help to talk about these things and, I've tried therapy and it just isn't the same. The bar is not there for a drink after therapy. You have to, right. Which it should be. It should be, yes, it should. So sometimes I've left therapy. I've needed a drink after, so yeah. So do you think that maybe that early success was because you made stuff so personal and you made a you had a voice to begin with because comics, you've seen a lot of comics, a lot of the new comics, they, a lot of them are, One liners Pungs stuff like that. Or they just go with toilet humor. Yeah. Because it's an easy laugh. Yeah. Or a storyteller like you. And it takes them five minutes to get to the punch line around it a lot. That's, it's an art to be able to. Have a story have something that you want to get across and still get the punchline in without losing the audience. Yeah. You have to be a storytelling comic. You have to have good punchlines throughout the story. It can't be just one long thing. And that's the tricky part because when I I tried to do a long story like one or two times, and I just didn't have enough punch in between. And it, it sounded more like a Ted talk than anything else. And in fact, I think one of my fellow comics said that to me, as I left the stage, he's thanks for the Ted talk. I think I've done the same thing. I know where you're coming from. Yeah. I know exactly where you're coming from. So what comics did you admire when you were. Growing up and even right before you started, I know. Growing up, I know I'm going to take a lot of flack from this from a lot of other comics, but I have always been a fan of Gallagher. Sand sledge dramatic was brilliant when it first started, but it was a bit, and then it took over everything. But I always thought Gallagher as Gallagher was. Really well thought out really funny. It was the eighties, of course, but later on, I got more into one of my all time favorites is Richard, Jenny that's the guy that knows how to do a story. That he knows how to tell stories and put stuff in between. And one of my favorite things about him as the ranch that he would go on for you wouldn't even have time to stop and breathe. You were laughing so hard, but at the same time you were missing half of what he said, because he just kept firing a match like crazy. And that was a. He w he was definitely a favorite for a long time. Yeah. Last special. Was that the Platypus or something like that? No. Yeah. Lifestyle or whatever. Yeah. That one hit me. That's before I started doing standup, but that was, I was, I've always been a fan and I was like, How can you have all the, it was like Carlin turned up a notch. He went, so he went so fast through that. And there were so many, it was so funny throughout your right. You couldn't breathe and you had the rewatch it on VHS of course, just to see the punchlines again. So you know what you meant? Yeah, definitely. But yeah, he was a powerhouse. Just awesome comedy writer. And I had heard at one point that he actually hated performing. He did not like performing, but he hated how he tried to sell his jokes and he hated how other comedians did his told his jokes, which was the only reason he started performing. I don't know if that's true or not. I just I read that somewhere years ago. So thinking about. Being part of the comedy club. When did you get into ownership of Wiley? It's a little over three years ago now. Basically I had gotten to know, I booked a local comedian on my on my radio show, which at the time it was still the live radio show. It was still the podcast as well. Cause I've been doing the radio show for six years and the podcast for now. And I had booked one of the local comics who ran the Wiley Sunday comics open mic show. Karen Jaffe. I had booked her as a guest and she had to cancel last minute. And rather than rather than just leave me hanging, she said I have a guest. It's the new owner of Wiley's comedy club, who at the time, I'm not going to mention his name, but there was a falling out. I was actually. Before he became the owner, I was actually banned from Y performing at Wiley's for awhile, which is something I'm just gonna leave that as a mystery. Yes, before part owner of the club, I was actually banned from performing there, but Karen sent the new owner of Wiley's. To be a part of my radio show as a guest and we had fun and we came up with an arrangement where he'd come back a couple of times a month just to promote the club. And I was cool with that. And then what happened is it got to where the club was needing a little bit of extra money and I just happened to have some at the time and he offered a percentage to buy in. So I bought in and then. Things went South really quickly and he had to be excused for reasons I'm not going to get into. And basically it was me and two other owners who were both out of state and basically most of running that club fell on me. What wasn't already on our general manager, who is our general manager. Eric has fantastic. She books, the shows, she pretty much does everything, but the paperwork anymore. That's about all I'm doing these days is just the paperwork for the club, but they're there for a while until COVID. I was involved enough to where I was pretty much at the club for. Just about every show working right. Alongside the staff. But yeah, that's about three years ago I became part owner and then I ended up with a bigger percentage than I was planning on because we had to get rid of our managing partner. Yeah. It was weird times. And then for the past three years, it's just been, it's been crazy. I love the club. I. It's just, it takes its toll after a while, because when you're constantly on the move like that in 2019, I actually lost almost 80 pounds. Oh, wow. Just because I was constantly right. Thanks to COVID it all came back. 2020, every bit of that came back. No, it was just, I was constantly running, constantly moving 2019. I also with everything going on in my personal life, I performed a lot more shows I think. And I think that year I was averaging like 17 or 18 shows a month. Wow. That's on top of. The club on top of and it wasn't just shows at my club because too easy. It was it was on top. That was on top of the club on top. I think I w I think I acted in four movies in 2019 as well. Plus the radio show and podcast. Plus I worked full time. Yeah. So with everything going on there, it just it takes its toll. After a while run me down a little bit. Yeah. I can see how you lost 80 pounds. You forget to eat and you forget to sleep when you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. They hadn't a lot of vodka that helped a lot to skip the carbs. Oh, yeah. We're doing the good carbs tonight. Yeah, absolutely. So when you got involved with the comedy club, obviously it was a little bit chaotic, but I'm sure you probably at the beginning were helping with the booking and stuff like that. Is that correct? I stayed as far away from booking as possible. Okay. Erica has done the booking at that club for quite some time were there's a, she's been there for it for. Almost 20 years now. I think she knows. She knows that club and that business better than I do. I'm not gonna, own owner, not, I'm not gonna go in there and step on somebody's toes. That's been doing it as long as she has. And. Does a better job than I would anyway. And I was happy not to book because that way I don't get hit up with emails and messages all the time from every comedian that wants to be booked at the club. Oh, no doubt. I do get quite a few, but then I can just, yeah. Yeah. And then wash your hands on it. I don't do that. Thinking about Erica having been there for 20 years, she had to have had She had to have a opinion on how a comic should act when reaching for a spot at the club or a weekend, either as a headline or feature, whatever what types of things the would she look for? And you look for, if you're recovering for a vacation or something like that, what do you look for in a comic that is going to be performing at Wiley's besides being funny? I look a lot of whether or not they promote whether or not they do their part to try to get people out there. But mostly if it's a comic I've never heard of that, just reaches out. They're probably not going to get booked. If it's somebody that's been to the club, that's done a couple of shows there as a feature, a host, or has done a couple open mics. There you have a much better chance. Let us get to know you a little bit because Wiley's. Wiley's is a family club. It's not like it, there's nothing corporate about it. It is. If you know us, we love you, we're going to do what we can for you. And that's the best way to get into wireless is just. Get there for some shows, get to know the staff a little bit, get to know the people and yeah you'll start getting booked there. Have you seen anybody in the last three years or in the time that you've been going there that either surprised you by leaving comedy or surprise you by being a fantastic comic after maybe cutting their teeth there. I don't know. I'm never surprised when somebody leaves company I'm sometimes if it's somebody that's really good, I'm a little bit surprised, but I'm usually a, that. There's so many people coming and go on in the comedy scene that it's it's. I usually don't have time to pay attention to a lot of them. And I don't mean to sound rude by that, but I learned my lesson about sitting through a lot of the open mics because that's when I start getting Facebook messages in the middle of the night on Sunday. How did you like my act? No, it's not a that's a good piece of good advice. If you perform for your first or second time at an open mic, don't start hitting up the club owner for his opinion, especially in 1130 on a Sunday night when he's gotta be at work at five in the morning, that happened far too often, but there, there of I don't know. I've there've been a lot of great comics come through their newer comics come through there that Ryan neem Miller, who went on to third place in America's got talent. He actually he's from Indianapolis originally. And he spent a lot of time at Wiley's. We booked him Before he, we were booking him at Wiley's before he was on America's got talent. And then after his third place, when since we've known him for a long time, Eric has known him for years. He used to come over and feature and host. She actually reached out to him right as he was getting right, as he was getting just started in America's got talent and she booked him. She happened to book him the weekend after the finale. Oh, wow. So on Wednesday night he wins. He places third in the finale in that Friday, he's at Wiley. So those were just, those were great shows that weekend. I got to do a guest set with him Saturday night. And that's usually if I was doing a show at Wiley's, it was because we were trying to save money on a host. So I would get up and host and that would be me, my set that way. I didn't have to get paid. So usually it was a weekend where we didn't have a big crowd. So getting to do a guest set on Ryan nee Miller's sold out show that was a high point. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's big. And he's he's still doing. Quite well, considering the COVID and all that, he's still doing very well. That's I always liked seeing comics that are on America's got talent because I think comedy is an art and it should be featured. However, I, and I won't say his name. I did see a comm comic who placed a pretty. At least in the top five several years ago I saw him in Chicago and boy, did he suck? He was, he w and I know everybody has a bad night and, but. It was a material. If I was reading the material from a notebook, I would still hate it. It was just, it was no, it was so pedestrian. It was just what everybody does. And you expect more out of it. Somebody like that. And when you're in that level, you definitely, when they're at that level, you definitely have to expect more. Yeah. And there, there was no personal stamp on that at all. Was pretty much rehashed jokes that I already knew. It was that bad. But Ryan is definitely not that type of guy. He's always looking for something new and really working towards it. One of the things that I talked to comics that are on both coasts and they all say that If you're like a headlining level comic, but you're not like you don't have an Amazon special or a Netflix or something like that. It's like pulling teeth to get onstage on either one of the coasts any real stage time. So they all come to the Midwest. To actually make enough money to live on. And this is pre pandemic. Of course, they come in the Midwest to make enough money to live on if they lived in LA or New York or whatever. And then would try to take what they worked on in the Midwest back to New York and still not get onstage and rinse and recycle and try to keep things gone. But and that's why really good comics come through here. Yeah, that's for sure. And the thing with comedy clubs is a lot of people that I get the question all the time. Who's the biggest name you have in there coming up and it's what does that matter? Go out and see some live comedy. See somebody you've never heard of before, because chances are, if they're headlining at a comedy club, they deserve to be there and enjoy them. And you really hit on something so narrow because when I started this podcast and I started at the beginning of the year, I was very deliberate in writing out what I wanted and I wanted to talk to working comics. I didn't want to talk know I'll talk to a famous comic if they want to talk to me. I talked to Steve Hofstetter earlier this morning, but if they want to talk to me, that's cool, but I'm going to talk to work in comics that are writing that are performing and making a good part of their living, doing comedy or in the comedy business, because those are the ones who know what it's like now. And also re they don't have to remember, like I had Tom Teresa on and he, he was one of my first guests. He was my first guest and I love Tom. He remembers what it was like in the old days, but, he's pretty far removed from it. Now, when you're living it, you get a different story than when you're reminiscing about it. Yeah. Yeah, Hofstetter at one point before I became involved in Wiley's Hofstetter actually had part ownership of the club there for awhile. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I did a phone or with him and I, the only phone or his I've ever done for this podcast is him and Bob zany and it's hard for me to do a phoner cause I like to look at the person I'm talking to. So I do a lot better when we're actually on screen, but he was just doing phone owners and I'll take what I can get. It was, we still had a good talk. I, before, before the pandemic hit, I was doing a live on air show and the studio and I was so used to having people in there with me that once COVID hit and I started doing everything from home through zoom and through , I have used dream in the yard before, but yeah, it just it's different. It's a different feel. Having somebody in studio with you is a lot, always a lot better. And interview haven't been able to look at them as always better. And that's. It's been a it's it gets to be a struggle sometimes. Just it's weird because I should be looking at the camera. So I look right here, but I'm looking at you because I'm listening to you and we're doing the same thing. We're doing work action. And just the way it is, the only thing, the only way I could fix this is if I take the camera and tape it to your glasses, and then I'll be looking at the camera, but I won't see you. So I suppose I could move my camera over a little. It's going to be weird. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I've got tens of listeners, so it's okay. But let's talk about the podcast a little bit, because you've been doing between the radio show on the podcast for quite awhile. What got you started doing that? Comedy actually like I said, I went back to school late to finish my degree and. So I would just, I had just started performing comedy and I didn't have a lot of time to get up on stage. At the schools, since I was working full-time I was a full-time student as well, plus doing comedy plus the acting at the time. So this was pre club ownership or I'd never, I would've driven myself nuts, but I figured I'd spent so much time at the school. They had a radio station on campus. And if you were a student, you can start a show. . So I thought since I can't get on stage a lot and keep in contact with a lot of these local comics, I'll just start a radio show since I'm on campus. Anyway, I have an hour break here and there I'll just bring some of the local comics onto the radio show, get to know them there. So that's that started, like I said, about six years ago, I started that and first couple of episodes were disastrous, but I had that there for awhile. I had a co-host that had a podcast and he would use ours. He would use the life radio show. For his podcast material. And then we had a falling out and I decided I got used to the idea of everything being saved because for the first year or so, it was just strictly a live show. It was done. There was no way to find it anywhere. It was finished. So I liked the idea of people being able to go back and listen later. So once we went our separate ways, I decided to start the life radio show as a podcast as well. So that's been about four years ago and it's just been a. Pulling comics on from all over the place. And of course, getting back into the film world, I'm pulling film, local filmmakers, local actors the handful of local musicians here and there. Cause all the music that I use on live radio show is local musicians. Yeah, with the exception of every now and then I did talk to Haywood banks and I use I use some of his every now and then who else did I talk to? Tim Cavanaugh, Tim Cavin, all that lets me use his songs too. So pretty much everybody's local been on the show. So the intro music, I really like your, are you a little bit of a metal head too? Yeah, a little bit. I like almost all kinds of music. I've always been a metal head since I, since my childhood. And that band that does that as a Potter's field, who's also a. Potter's field is the lead singers, a solo project. His actual band he was with was called Destra core. He has several, he has a number of albums out from district core, as well as from Potter's field. The I've just, he's been a good friend of mine. I was actually in a band with him briefly in high school. That's once as soon as I got on the air, I got ahold of him and I said his name's Don, too. I got ahold of him. I was like, Don, I. I have a radio show. Give me some of your music. I'll put it over the air. That's what I, that's what I started doing. Then I got permission to use it for the intro and outro of the shows. That's cool. And it's funny that grabbed me. I, for some reason I was listening to a couple of your episodes to get to know you a little bit before I talked to you and that just. Grabbed me enough. I listened to the intro a couple of times because it was just good. It was fresh. It was good metal. And everybody likes metal. They should, if they don't, there's something wrong with them. Yeah. So have you you said you talked to Haywood banks and Tim Cavanaugh, have you met anybody doing the podcast that I'm surprised you being okay. There's a lot of comics that are superficial. Their act is superficial. Let's say like Larry, the cable guy he's playing a character, but when you actually talk to them you find out they're much deeper. Yeah. Yeah. There, there have definitely been a couple of course, Dani Baker. Yeah Dani Baker used to do Wiley's all the time and yeah. Yeah, he he's a different personality off stage. And there, there have been some that have surprised me by being the same off stage as they are on stage. One of my favorite comics to watch live and just because of the absolute powerhouse of energy Greg Haun. Is absolutely amazing to watch live. The first time I ever saw him, it was the second show of a double header do shows on Saturday. And the first show Saturday, I wasn't, I was there, but I was doing other things in the second show. I actually went in and watched and he, I don't see how you keep that energy going for one show. Let alone two, but talking to him off stage. Cause he's been there several times. He actually. He called into the radio show watch, which is another fun story. But I've talked to him several times off stage, and he's almost the same high energy personality off stage. So it's just kind of him. I think I was telling somebody the other day, I've had several conversations with Greg gone, but there've only been like one or two times. I talked to him where I would just went. Wow. He's human. So much respect for him as a comic though. He is. He tears me up. He is absolutely hilarious and just just a ball of energy, but he called into the radio show once. And we were having problems with a soundboard. So we could put the phone, call out over the air, but he couldn't hear us. I could talk to him off the air, but as soon as we put him on the air, he couldn't hear anything we were saying. So finally, I just said, here's what we're going to do, Greg, I'm going to put you on the air. You say whatever you want for however long you want to say it. And whenever you're done, just let me know. There's Greg and screaming and yelling was high energy goofiness for about three or four minutes. Just solid on the radio show. Oh, that's great. That's a, it almost sounds like a old Bob and Tom. I used to live in Indian listened to Bob and Tom before they were syndicated and stuff like that. And they had technical issues. Yeah. The life radio show became known for technical issues there for awhile. Cause when I first started. Like I said, the first show was a disaster. I couldn't, I could get in there. And I, all I could remember how to do was get us on the air and get us back off the air. Not remember how to play a song for a break. I couldn't remember how to go to the station ID, anything. So it was just, it's we're not taking a break. We're just plowing through. And from then on it just became a running joke where the life radio show, we just had no idea what we were doing. I'm cool with that, actually. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. It's funny. I grew up here in the Midwest. I'm in Indiana and we're close to Notre Dame and I grew up obviously, I'm 56, so there was no internet when I was a kid. And. The only thing I really liked in life was music. And I can't play music. I can't sing I'm tone deaf, and I've tried to play and it just doesn't work. But I love listening to it. And I didn't like anything that was big in the. Mid late seventies. It, I, bad company, it was a lot of corporate rock, foreigner and stuff like that. And there was this dude that had the Friday shift at the Notre Dame station. WSN D and he would play. He'd play what he wanted to play. I think from 10 to midnight just a couple of hours. And so he was, I think he was an East coast guy. And so that's how I got introduced to blindy and the talking heads, Ramones split ans all those new wave punk, sex pistols and stuff like that. All those bands and. Then I'd go to the record store to try to find the records and they weren't in India. Yeah. It always took a year for stuff to get to the Midwest from either coast. And I always look back on those days finally, cause I would just sit in my room with the headphones on and. Listen to that music. And then my parents would come in and tell me to turn the music down. Even though it was coming through my headphones and that's why I wear hearing AIDS today. There you go. That'll do it. But yeah, I was, I was, I was such a nerd that's all I got into and I was really into Steve Martin. And then when Dave Letterman came up, I was into him. But it was that radio station really opened my eyes. There. There's a lot more to do than the corn in Indiana, yeah. I would say I've gotten more into music. The over the last, probably 10 years before that. But as far as comedy, that was the thing that I've always been into. Cause my. My dad, we used to watch the old Showtime comedy specials and the HBO comedy specials and all that. And the funny man clowns of comedy, that kind of thing, like Mark McCollum and Billy Elmer was always a favorite. There's so many of these comics that. Outside of those Showtime specials, you didn't hear a lot about because they were working in comics. They were just, they weren't the big name, the big names that everybody expects at a 200 seat comedy club. That's what always cracks me up about that question. It's like wind Chappelle coming. It's like Chappelle can sell out a 10,000 seat. He's probably not going to play a 200 seat comedy club, but. He started Wiley's he's local, Chappelle's out of yellow Springs, Ohio, which is about 20 miles outside of Dayton. That's just where he started. So that's always my advice to people. You get out and see some of the local comics because they eventually, one of them will be the next big comic. Oh yeah. Yeah. And they are absolutely trying harder there's some of them are trying. Yeah. So as somebody who has seen comedy from the inside, you've done the writing, you've done the performing. You've seen how the stage works and stuff like that. How do you, what do you like about comedy today? Why, what the comedians that you see today, what do you like about what you see now? We're not seeing enough of it because of COVID but I don't know that I'd like. Did every now and then there are some that are daring enough not to be politically correct when that's expected. We have a lot of them that are just trying too hard to not offend people. And that tends to make for weaker comedy. Cause if you're not offending anybody, you're not talking about anything important. And that's, I've. I've done whole sets on religion. I fully expected half the audience to walk away from, but somehow made them work. Yeah, that's the tricky part is being able to talk about, and that's what comedy has always been. Being able to talk about stuff that's taboo and do it well enough that people will. Not only laugh, but think about it and accept that. That's what you're talking about. There, there are still several of the newer comics that are doing that, and there are still a lot of the newer comics that are trying to tiptoe around what they're actually trying to say. So I, I don't think that it's changed a whole lot from what it used to be. I think people are getting more personal and getting more. I don't know, risky or whatever, but yeah, I don't think it's really changed a lot from the eighties. People are still talking about what they're talking about. People are still, I'm not really sure that anything's really all that different. Some of the, I guess the PC kind of culture, you have to be a little careful, but at the same time, I. Don't bother and why, what I take from it is you can get away with a lot of stuff when you're funny. Yeah. If it's, if it actually comes out as funny and not mean it's good. Or if it comes out as mean, but it's still funny. You can get away with that too, but some comic as either dancing around political correctness and trying to stay within the boundaries, or they are intentionally going outside the boundaries too. Just horrify audiences and that doesn't work either, but the ones that are really masterful Louis Black or somebody like that, they actually talk about things that are important and have people on both sides of the political spectrum or religious spectrum or whatever, actually laugh because they can actually laugh at themselves. If it's about. So people are having a more and more difficult time laughing at themselves anymore. I think as far as the PG PC culture goes, as long as your jokes punch upward and not downward, as long as the ridicule goes to somebody that's considered at a higher tier, you don't want, you don't want to start crapping on the downtrodden. They're already there. Yeah. Do what you want to tackle the people that are up above at least think they're up above and that's. That's the tricky part. That's the tricky part is to keep it to where you're not just being a jerk. Has has I didn't look through your entire podcast library. Have you ever talked to Stewart Huff or has he ever played your, yeah, I he's been at the club several times. He's a favorite at Wiley's he's usually headline in there that at least once a year, sometimes twice a year, sometimes he comes in to do he's shown up for our. Sunday comic open mics before and closed out an open mic for us. Yeah, Stuart's brilliant. Yeah. I think he's been on the podcast twice. I think I'll have to look for those episodes. He was my snipping guest on my podcast. And while I like about him he punches up a little bit, but he punches sideways a little bit too, and he gets away with it because it's more philosophical. The guy's a master and the fact that he doesn't want to be any more than what he is. I totally respect that. Because so many people are trying to get on the sit-com or get a writing gig at SNL or something like that. And this guy just wants to go out and say his words and make people laugh and hopefully change minds too. His stuff really. I talk about this in way too many podcasts, but one of my early interviews was with a psychologist that is really big in the comedy and has written a couple of books and he talks about a thermostat comedian and that's somebody who talks about what's either going on in the world, going on in their life and they're just commenting on it. And then there were thermometer. A comedian that talks about what's going on and tries to change minds a little bit as they go along. They're trying to put the temperature up a little bit and Stew's definitely thermometer comedian. Yeah. Last time he was on the show, he was talking about when he started and he was doing shows at Walmart. Yeah, that's it. You get the, you hear that story? I ever heard that he was having trouble getting booked when he first started up. And so he would walk back into the electronics department in Walmart and grab one of their microphones. No, it was Kmart. Sorry. It was Kmart, not Walmart. He would do that. And Kmart, he would do his Kmart shows and he just, he would just be in the electronics department at Kmart and nobody, nobody listening and he'd do that every every week. Oh, that's great. We got in, we got sidetracked because he's. He had that, or he has that, I don't know if he's doing current episodes, but that curious obsessions podcast, cause he's in the antiques and weird old antiques and my grandma was an antique dealer and I was there. My, my grandparents loading guy, I would load them and unload them from shows and stuff like that. And my grandma was in all that. Weird stuff too, but it was older and weirder. And and we got into a pretty good conversation about that. Both online and offline, but yeah, he's got a whole house full of curiosities. He likes to call. Yeah, he's a great dude. I had, he's always a blast to have at the club. So let's talk about the acting that you've done, because I S your credits are on quite a few things. How did you get into the whole acting part from, I know you were doing the theater, the community theater and stuff like that, but how did you make that jump into the acting part? Years ago, long before I started comedy I did there was. I think three movies that I was in, but only one of them actually only one of them actually got finished. It was just something I, since I was doing the theater, I wanted to try some film out and see what was going on with that. And I did a couple back then and most of them at the time, it was before a lot of the streaming stuff still. It was still a lot more difficult to get out there. So my first film ever was called the Monster's mind, and I think it premiered at Rome international film festival in Rome, Georgia, but Hey, we were nominated for best feature length films, but. When I started getting back into comedy because I took a break from a lot of it for a long time, for like several years when I started getting back into comedy, I started at some of the clubs. I started to meet some of these filmmakers and the first one was a Henrik Couteau. I got to know him fairly well, and he's probably best known for babysitter massacre. He does a lot of great horror films and. I got to know him a little bit, and I did a few kind of walk on rolls on shit on films with him. I was in a calamity Jane's revenge. Let's say nothing good ever happens. But then he did a series that's available on Amazon right now. I think you can still watch it free. If you have Amazon prime, it's called the the boggy Creek the F the Bigfoot series. And I got to be, I was a featured lead on the episode too. And that was a lot of fun, but I got to know him and then that just everything else was just auditions or I'd go to one of my took an acting class just for fun. It was more of an improv class. And a couple months later, I got a call from the person that was running the class saying, Hey, I'm directing a movie. Would you like a part in it? I was like, Whoa. Yeah. I auditioned for a number of them. The biggest one that was cinema lexicon directors, William Lee, and. I have been, I think we just wrapped principal photography on my seventh film with him. And cause that's usually how it works. If you get in with a director and a crew that works well together and meshes well together and you're reliable, they're going to keep bringing you back. Yeah. So I've been I've been very lucky to work with him quite a bit. In fact, the next one we're doing is through he's one of the producers of it, but it's I get the, I get to be a, CoStar. So it's, I'm going to be one of the lead actors on the next one, which is I don't want to, I can't talk too much about right now, but the one that we just wrapped was bill had black Wolf, the one that did, but I've been working with him for Almost five years now. And he gets his out there cause a lot of filmmakers. Henrik does too. All these people that I work with, they usually get their stuff out there, but I've worked with some that you'll do a whole lot for, and then you won't hear anything about it ever again? Yeah. But yeah, I've worked with a lot with cinema lexicon, with Henrik Couteau, with Lon and read a lot of people that, that just, they get their films out there and Garnette films. That's lot of reads company. We did a Western world trailer for that. That looks pretty cool. And yeah, they it's. It's a little deceiving. I got on it, to be honest, it's a great movie, but it's more like a, it's more like a Western murder mystery. Then I'd like a Western shoot them up kind of thing. Because if you look at the trailer, it looks like there's a lot of action, but in reality, there are some, but at the same time, a lot of it is just. Talking out trying to solve this mystery that who killed because the original title was a dead husband in a Western town, which leads more to the mystery element since they had the show Westworld, it was time. They said let's call it Western world, trying to get some of that audience over. And I think their marketing of it I don't know that it really heard it, but it the marketing, we had a lot of people that were expecting lot of gunfights in a Western that just weren't there. But it's a great movie. It's very, well-written Brian Dobbins, I think wrote that, but it's a very well-written movie, a lot of great acting in a lot of really good filmmaking went into that. It just, I think it was marketed to a crowd that was expecting a lot more than a mystery. But it was the trailer looks good. I think it's a great movie. Yeah. I'm going to check it out. Do you think that your voice gets you in the door for some of these acting gigs? I think having a comedy club for people to shoot in occasionally gets me a lot of them. Cause that's, there's a lot of boggy Creek we shot that. It was over three years ago. It was a, it was almost three years before that came out from the time we shot it, it came out a little over a year ago. But I forgot how often we shot at Wiley's for that until I started watching the series again, it's just that it's a six episode series and I completely forgot that in that area, they were using wireless as like their neighborhood bar. Yeah. So it made it and Wiley's made it in the more episodes than I did. Yeah. Yeah. Black Bomba, which just released a cinema lexicon movie that just released, I think in may or June we probably shot about 70% of that inside and around. Wiley's. Wow. That's cool. Because the cool thing about Wiley's, there've been so many renovation attempts and so many half-hearted remodels that you can, it looks like 17 different sets. We can film here. It looks like this, your film over there. It looks like an entirely different thing. Our cooler, the doors on our cooler are old. We actually use that to me. I think in black Mamba, we shot the cooler as our morgue. But just the doors and everything, it looked like it could be a capacity for a mortgage. So yeah. I hope that some of it's my voice, my talent that gets me some of the acting gigs, but I know some of them were just because they wanted to shoot at the club and roll, which I'll take. Yeah. Is your voice something that you've worked on to get to where you're at or is it just completely natural? I mostly of it's completely natural. I've never really had any voice lessons or anything I have. Of course, I've done the podcast for a long time. I have done a little bit of voice work. This past summer. I did some voice work on children's book, a children's audio book that Oh, the rooster that wouldn't Crow. Already now I've done a few things like that. I was part of the unwritten podcast, season two which is an audio drama podcast. So I've done some voice acting, but Mo most of my voice just comes naturally. That's great. And I. I'm a voice guy. And the reason why is because, and this entire conversation that we've had, I've understood every word you said. And I'm extremely hard of hearing. So even when the headphones are in, if there's any mumbling or any, just. Any weird pauses or something like that. I lose stuff. And it's funny. Cause I talked to another comic a couple episodes ago. He's probably been at Wiley's Jeff Shaw is he's been around and he did a show. This summer it was now. Doors show that my wife and I went to this was, in the middle of the Rona. And it was in this very rural town. Had two corn fields between we, we drove an hour to get there and we're in a very small city ourselves. And he did that show and one of the things I told him was. I understood every word that you said, and that is very uncommon for me because diction is very important and enunciating words and saying the whole word, not mumbling not running into the next word and stuff like that. It was very important to me to be able to hear. And he had never heard that before, but you're another, you're like the second person I've talked to that I don't have. It's a really strange to understand every single word that you're saying. And it's a great radio voice, but I see it's, it's on the edge of an Orison Wells type thing, I will take that as a hell of a compliment. Honestly I loved Orson Wells and. Once again, I understand every word he says when I, when I watch his stuff still. So it's I it's very distinctive and yet it's not over the top. You're not like a morning zoo radio type voice. Hey, what are you doing? And, but. Every word. I understand when I was perusing the podcast, I was like, Holy cow, I don't have to strain to hear this guy. And I'll take that as a compliment because people need to laugh too. And I needed to hear all the words. Yeah, I was an English major, so I've done a lot of reading aloud. Plus the radio show. I've been doing that for so long. Plus being a performer, you can't really mumble a lot doing theater, you have to project. And I think a lot of that's a lot of that's helped develop it. So I won't say it. Totally natural, but just, I haven't purposely said, okay, let's work on my voice to say everything's been developed over time through all the different things that I've done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I've got actually a public speaking coach. Coming on the podcast on Friday, I'm interviewing him Friday morning and it's totally selfish because I have the tendency to say. And and I also stammer, I also say things too many times and I'm just going to use him to train me to be better. And it works. And comics can use that too, because there's a lot of comics that get up on stage and I don't hear half of what they said, they think because they have the mic in their hand, they can just mumble through it because it's being amplified and it amplified mumbling is still, yeah. You, you mumbled through the punchline, you just lost the joke. Yeah. Yup. Yup. Yeah. So that's I'm looking forward to Friday. So let's talk about. One of the things I like to ask everybody is what is the best and worst advice you got about comedy? I think that the best and the worst advice about comedy is quit now. I don't know that I really listened to a lot of advice, honestly. I just, that sounds weird, but I just don't. I cause it with comedy, if you listen to too much advice, you're never going to find your own voice. And I won't say I haven't listened to any of it. It's just. Not enough to where I remember it as something that really sticks with me. Yeah. I guess that's bad actually. It's funny. We were talking about Stu and on a Stuart house episode, I asked him the same question. And he said Don't take anybody's advice. I'm taking his advice and I didn't even know it. You gotta do. You gotta blaze your own trail and do your own thing. Make your own mistakes and take your own victories because it's not, there's no formula. There's a formula for a laugh. That, that's pretty much mathematic, mathematical, the punchline, the setup, the punch, and set up punch and set up and three punches. And however you do it, it's, that's pretty much mathematical, but the rest of it, how you get there is all on you. So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I've been asked for advice a lot and I really don't know what advice to give. I really am. It's the same thing and that might be because it's back in the back of my mind, I knew it was because I had, you have to blaze your own trail. And that's the thing. Cause you can be funny doing something that nobody else is funny doing, but you have a different way of doing it that everybody else says don't do it that way. But if it works for you, it works for you. Who really? Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. I did a episode and this was a while back. It was a comedy coaching episode and there's a guy I like a lot named Joel buyers, who does, he does stand up, but he also does a lot of comedy classes and coaching. And I did a whole online. It was stream live and I put seven minutes of my material out there. The last seven minutes I did. And we went through it and broke it down. What was good and what was bad. And we were streaming. Live, and he absolutely hated my closing joke. He said, it's got to go, You can't do it. And I'm, how you fall in love with the joke? I had fallen over joke. It turned out Jimmy Brogan from the tonight show was watching that particular live feed and he typed into the feed. Hey, that's the best joke of the whole. And Joel was like, okay he knows better than me worked for Johnny for so long, it's but The funny thing is Jimmy actually sent me a message and he said, try putting that at the front instead of the, don't make that your clothes or make it your opener. And I did that and that's much better. I totally changed my act around I've turned everything upside down and it works much better. So it was really how that works out. Yeah. Little pieces of advice like that are good to take. And you try it, you try them out a little bit, but yeah. The bad thing is there are always more people that are willing to give advice and comedy than there are willing to listen. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times the people that are given the advice have no. Yeah. They've done three open mics and all the educated comedian. Yep. Yeah, those are the same ones. I've done three open mics, and those are the same ones that send me emails. When can I get a weekend at Wiley? I don't know. Can you wash dishes? Oh yeah. Poor people. I just don't know. What three things do you know now either about comedy or the comedy business that you wish you would have known when you started. Just three. I got all night, baby. Yeah, there, there are a lot of things I've learned doing that. I just again, nothing really comes to mind. I know if I had it to do over again, as much as I love Wiley's I would not have become a part owner that's for sure. Because that's a one thing. If you're a comedian and you own a club you have to be real careful entering any competitions. I was I was disqualified from the world series of comedy because I was part owner of Wiley's which kind of, which, which kind of sucked. I was really looking forward to. I was disqualified, but they didn't get me my entry feedback, at least host a prelim. We did that year. I think we did a couple of years. The past year. We didn't know. I can see how that would maybe matter. But once you get past that, it shouldn't even matter. Yeah. The thing is I did not sign up to perform at Wiley's. Cause you can sign up at several different satellites. So I, I didn't sign up to perform at wildly satellite. I signed up for several other ones, but never, I didn't sign up for Wiley. So that's why it was like what difference does it make? I'm not performing at my own club, but apparently it was enough that they said, no That's too bad. It really sucks. Yeah. There, there have been a, there, I think there were two other festivals I wanted to perform at and because I was with Wiley's, they wouldn't they wanted me there as industry. Yeah. But not as a performer. It's Ugh. I don't want to go there as industry. Yeah. That's no fun at all. You get passed over for your own club that way. Yeah, exactly. Oh man. So do you think that okay, with the pandemic and everything that's going on, do you think that anybody should even be getting into stand up comedy now? It depends on why you're getting into it. If you're getting into it to make money, then probably not. Just because, it. In the last year, some phenom, it's going to be 15 years before you get to where you can. This is going to be 10 to 15 years before you can make a living doing it. And even that living, most of it will be living out of your car, driving from club to club across the country. It's like anything else you have to get in into it for the right reasons. It's just like acting, you have to get into it for the right reasons. I love acting. I love comedy. I love what I do. That's why I still have to work a full-time job. But that's when I get cast in a film or something, I. Usually the question, how much am I getting paid is the furthest thing from my mind, right? Yeah. I mean to me, it's stuff I would probably do for free. If you're going to pay me for it, that's a bonus and it's all time consuming stuff, but yeah it's like anything else? It depends on the reasons you're getting into it. If you're getting into it because you like performing. Cause you love making people laugh because you love comedy. Don't hold back, get into it. Even with the COVID. You're going to have a harder time finding a place to perform. It's going to get, things are getting ugly now. We're still open, but we're at like 30% capacity. So we're squeaking by. Yeah. And we're doing everything we can to be as safe as possible with our staff and our comics and our customers. But. Yeah, there are still some clubs that are open and running and this will pass. This will pass. If you get out now, there, there are still a lot of I know here in Dayton, there's a group that does a do a couple of live feed comedy shows. So there, there are still venues out there. There are still ways to get out there. But as far as starting in the midst of all this, why not? Because you start in the middle of all this. It's the people that are living on that have been doing it for awhile that are trying to live off of it. Now that are struggling. If you're just starting it now you're golden. You don't have to worry about making money. Yeah. Yeah. Have you done any of the zoom comedy? I have not because it's, to me it's it would be really weird without a live audience. That's actually reacting. So I don't know what the, I don't know how it's set up on us. It's weird. You should watch one sometime. W I'm wearing a t-shirt. One of the, I did a virtual comedy festival and it was somewhat enjoyable, but it was also extremely depressing. And I'm doing a show on Friday night that somebody asks me to do I stay away from it. As much as I can, I'll do an open mic, just so I can say the words of stuff I've written out loud, just because I need to, but and I'll do like a writing workshop or something like that, but actually perfect. Forming is you. You really get this wave of depression when you're done, if you've ever performed live, because it's just not the same. So yeah, I'll do it. If somebody asks me to do it I enjoy getting ready for it. I enjoy saying the words, doing my bits and stuff like that. And then when it's done, I die a little bit. Honestly, a lot of live performances. Even if they go I will hit a low usually after being off stage. So I really, I don't want to compound that by doing one of these zoom shows. Yeah, it was bad enough. Them comedy is a world of lows and highs anyway. Yeah. You do one show and you're on top of the world. You do the next one. It feels like you've been kicked in the sack about 15 times. So yeah, it's definitely, there are a lot of ups and downs. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I actually I sponsored a comedy contest and online comedy contest through the podcast where I had. 21 participants. I had three groups of seven and perform. And my top three, one of them was a professional comic that had been working for about seven years. The other one was She was a documentarian she'd she did a lot of the documentary filming and had done some comedy in the past, but just started back up. So she was almost like a green horn. The earth dude has never performed live. And he made it to the finals and he second place and he's from Scotland. He was a funny motherfucker. I gotta tell you. And I absolutely love the guy and he is just itching to perform. Why are like, I keep saying, it's different. It's different, he's got this whole zoom stuff down to two of science. He knows when to pause. He knows if there's a delay and all that kind of stuff, he's done it so much that he's great at it. And it's really cool to see that people from all those different levels were good enough to make it to the finals and they all deserve to be there. There, it was really fun. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'll be very interested to know how he does when he actually does get to perform live. Cause it's different animal. I tell you why I think of him as the next Stephen, right? He's got that dead pan and he's not quite as non-sequitur. But he's almost there a lot of ponds and stuff like that, but he's, it's so fast. Counted when he did his set for the finals, I counted six laughs in the first 30 seconds. Next, real laugh. And th that was six separate jokes. It was, five seconds of joke punch or set up punch, set up, punch, set up punch. It was amazing. And he was able to do seven minutes of that. Yeah. Yeah. So it was it's real neat to see somebody that's writing that much. He says he writes like five to six hours a day. And I'm lucky to get 30 minutes and if I'm, and I don't do hardly anything with it anymore I I performed in January and I was gonna, I was actually planning before COVID hit. I was going to take a break cause I actually had evenings free and I had time to get back and do some live. Theater, which honestly that's still my first love. I still would rather do live theater than comedy or film. And I finally got to where it's okay, I have some time in the evenings, I'm going to do this. I'm going to take a break from comedy for a while and I'm going to get, and then of course, as soon as I do all the theaters shut down because of COVID. So it's maybe it's my fault. I shouldn't have done that. It's now it's all me. I caused COVID. That was with my hopes and dreams of performing live theater. Oh man. I can point a finger at somebody for awhile. I'll take it. I'll take it. If it helps the world at large to blame me for it, it's like my theater acting is so bad. The Lord visited us with a plague to keep me from a performance I had from January up until late October. I did nothing. I had no shows. I wrote pretty much. I had some. Thoughts for new jokes, but I jotted them down and left them. And then all of a sudden somebody hit me up in October, said, Hey, you want to do this show? And I said, yeah, okay. I haven't done these in a while. And I had to come up with a bunch of news stuff. So yeah I scrambled for about a week. Trying to figure out what I wanted to talk about and it ended up going well, but I went up with that angry persona. Yeah. Deadlines definitely help with the writing process. Yeah, for sure. After that show, I had somebody come up to me and said, the only reason I came to this show is I knew it'd been 10 months since you'd been on stage. And I wanted to see how much you blew up. Yeah. And he's, he said I was not disappointed. He did not disappoint. I let 10 months of pent up anger and frustration out on that stage. It was pretty wild. Oh, that's great. Don it's been great having you on the show. I I'm glad we got introduced got to give Steve Joyner a shout out because he hooked me up with about five interviews on, in an hour. And I think more, more is common then. Steve's a cool guy and I'm really glad that we got hooked up. And I'm glad I met you and then yeah. I'm going to listen to, I'm going to find your Stewart Huff podcast episodes, and listen to those and start listening to all those because first of all, I can hear you. And second, I like the style of your podcast. It's a lot like mine, where you let the guests talk more than you talk so that, that's a, I love that. I love when a guests talks more than me, cause I don't have to do as much. I've had some shows where I've had a guest on, because I'm not a huge sports guy. Yeah, but somebody came on that was a sports reporter and then did sports podcasts and sport shows. So it's I have nothing to really add to this and I would bring in a guest cohost. Yeah. And I'd sit back and let those two go at it for the whole hour. And it's I'm good. I have to do that for sports too, because I'm not into it either. So that's one of the things I always loved about when I was doing the live shows every week, I would bring guests co-hosts in and the only criteria to be a guest co-host is you had to have been a guest before. Yeah, that's it. You had to have been a guest and I enjoyed your company. Yeah. Most of my guests, I really don't have any guests that I didn't enjoy. There are one or two that, but most of the guests I've had over, almost six years doing the radio show have been wonderful people, but I bring a guest co-host in and I like to get. People that are like-minded. Cause when I first started working with Steve, I mean he put people on my show that it's not sure how to relate already Hoffman is a, I don't know if you've interviewed are already Hoffman yet. He's a psychic medium. Yeah that's not my realm. I do. I do comedians. Yeah. So did I, for the most part, but I was a lot of fun. He was a lot of fun to have on the show, but I brought on a friend of mine, the comic out of Cincinnati, Erica Russell, who. Also does tarot card readings and natal chart readings. That way. I have two people that kind of work in the spirituality and the astrology kind of thing. And the, and that psychic medium realm that they could hit it off together. When I did, I interviewed Pat Janka wits Pat Janka wicks. You used to do some writing for Fangoria magazine for a guest co-host for that I brought Henry Couteau on who has been featured in Fangoria magazine and they are both big horror guys. So they just went back and forth the whole time. I think, I don't think I had to say a whole lot in either of those interviews and that, to me that's a fun thing to me as a host when I bring two people in as guests that just hit it off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's neat to connect people and it's neat to connect with people. That's a fun thing about doing a podcast and doing comedy and theater and all that kind of stuff. You always find somebody that's either. Or somebody who's kinda your, a spiritual equal or something like that, you can get together and make a friends and that's important. Yeah. Yeah. I, and I appreciate you having me on, it's been great talking to you. Yeah. It's been a, it's been a great conversation. I'm glad we were both drinking. Because it's the day before Thanksgiving and I'm cooking for two tomorrow because we're staying away from the kids, it's depressing, but it's what you got. Yeah. Yeah. Made drinking. Yeah, no doubt. I made a beer run today, so I've got enough for the weekends. Perfect. Perfect. Where can people find you if they want to listen to the podcast see your comedy, anything like that? I don't have a lot of con there's probably some old stuff. That's some of my early stuff, that's still on YouTube. Don't watch it. It's okay. As far as my movies, you can definitely check me out on, I am DB Donald Smith. I always went with Donald when I first started acting. So that kind of stuck on my MDB, but you can check out any of those movies. There's a lot of them that are on Amazon right now. There's a lot of them on other streaming services. No black Mamba and the Gucci both came out this past summer. Of course, checkout. No boggy Creek the series on Amazon prime. You can check me out. You can find me@thelifeoneohsixnine.com. You can also that there'll be links to pretty much everything on there, including my movies, including the podcast. You can find the podcast itself, my link tree, depending on what a podcast. You use what podcast services podcast hosts you use? It's a link L I N K T R dot E slash the life radio show. You can find me on Facebook at the life one Oh six, nine or on Twitter at Don Smith comedy. I think that's about everywhere. I'm at. Great. I'm really glad we got to connect. That's. It's nice to meet somebody that that started comedy as a passion and not something that they wanted to make a living with. And I'm in the same boat. Yeah. I'd love to be able to make a living doing the things I do for fun, but it just is it's not happening yet. So somebody asked me, I did an interview a while back and somebody said where do you want this to take you in five years? And I said, to be quite honest, if I am in five years from now, if I'm able to still do the things I'm doing now, even at the same level, I'll take it. I'm happy with it because I love what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Thanks a lot, Don. It's been great talking to you. Thanks for having me.